I first read this story yesterday, but kept reading that it was going to be primarily for piracy issues, but it turns out the 360 is finally doing something about disc size limitations.
This is not a fanboy rant so please understand I just want a discussion, but this is a subject that brjahu and I especially have talked about again and again and again.
When the 360 first launched the DVD discs were big enough, but as of late they're running into more and more problems.
Castlevania, Mass Effect 2, Dead Space 2, Lost Odyssey, Final Fantasy 13 and potentially the upcoming Rage were on or will be on multiple discs. Normally I don't have a problem with multi disc games especially if it's a linear game like Lost Odyssey or FF, but when a disc limits the potential for a more open ended game I do have a problem with that.
I guess over the past couple years (I think for Gears of War 2 on) I've been worried about space problems and whether or not DLC is less about making money on the back end than it is they literally didn't have space on the disc for all the originally planned release material.
After installing some of Microsoft's blockbuster games onto my hard drive I see just how truly full these games are (6.8gb is the max I think because around another 1gb has to be used for MS mandated things like achievements) compared to the disc and wonder if the developer wanted to include more, but couldn't.
It's not such a huge deal, but it does hurt other games that are obviously going to be ported on PS3 or PC. Since the 360 has the largest customer base it's obviously catered to the most, but I guess it just doesn't feel fair.
Rage is an excellent example. I remember a couple years ago when the Godfather of games and graphics, John Carmack, was speaking very candidly about space limitations on the 360. They want Rage to be an open world concept, but said that they'd have to use 2-3 discs to fit it all in on 360. He further went on to explain the extra cost associated to themselves and Bethesda in manufacturing a game with that many discs, but he was confident that they could "make the game fit." Which of course started all kinds of accusations of id having to chop it's own game to bits to work on 360. (Links to supported material here and here and here.)
I remember reading the tons of flame bait, but I think that the concern is genuine. Why should PC and PS3 players get less of a game because of Microsofts (growing more and more) dated tech?
I guess it's just a little more annoying because those who bought the original 360 at launch missed out on a little something called an "HDMI" port because MS said that it wasn't an industry standard at the time. My TV had an input for one.....good thing my 360 broke so I could purchase my 3rd one that did have a proper HD port.
Also, will 1gb of extra space help that much? ME2 was 12gb and I'm sure most of the others I listed still wouldn't fit on this new tech.
Again this isn't meant as flame bait, but to generate a discussion. With the share of gamers MS controls it's fair to say they control the market and the fact that they are even doing this just proves that they're aware of their limitations and that just maybe.....Kinect won't make the 360 a 10 year system like they think it will.
It seems like adding only 1 extra GB of space won't make too much of a difference. I've bought 2 2-disc games for the 360: Castlevania and Dead Space 2. I think both ended up being 12.7 GB after install. So I don't really know how much that extra GB will help. I really don't mind switching out discs on these linear games, but with something with a big open world like Rage I can't think of how it would even work having multiple discs.
ReplyDeleteWhere does Microsoft go with their next console? They can't/won't use Blu-Ray. Will they invent their own high-capacity discs? Go 100% downloadable?
In defense of Microsoft, what would any of us done when building the 360? It released in 2005, so it would have been in development in 2003 and 2004, probably. Blu-ray and HD-DVD were BARELY blips on the radar. The same for HDMI. Would you have taken the risk of trying to implement these new technologies into your product and having them tank? Of course, looking at it now we think Microsoft is stupid for not doing so and curse them for only using DVD.
When you load a game on your 360, don't you still need a disc to play? I tried this with Oblivion and it still made me put the disc in, just like the PC. And actually, a lot of PC games let you activate the game and then play without a disc... if you even use a physical copy. Most of the last games I've purchased have been digital copies on Steam.
ReplyDeleteBut don't see how this will help much. MS wanted to be the first one out with the next generation to grab the market, which they did, and now they are behind, haha...
Salad: I agree that it was a risk for MS back then with HDMI, but at the same time the only other option was component or VGA. Did they really expect those to hold up knowing what Sony had around the corner?
ReplyDeleteAs far as the DVD drive I agree that at that time they didn't really have a choice, but as Juniper already said....it's the cost of being first on the market.
Juniper: You'll probably laugh at this, but the purpose of installing games onto your 360 is to keep the disc from spinning because the drives are so loud. It does help reduce load times though.
I know that we bag on 3D a lot and I don't have a 3D anything, but I do commend Sony for taking 3D as seriously as it has and being one of the few companies campaigning for it. They are attempting (with their own interests in mind of course) to push and embrace the future and that's cool.
Remember how we all thought Blu-Ray would fail? It may not succeed in the long run with streaming video and all, but as far as media storage on a disc it's the clear winner.
Yeah, the 360 is like a mini jet engine... it can get annoying when you have to turn your TV up to hear it over the 360.
ReplyDeleteI do have to say between my PC and 360 being on during the winter, my basement room gets pretty hot, haha.
I'm actually impressed they were somehow able to squeeze another GB out of the DVD format without adding an additional layer. Truthfully, on their next system if they don't go download only (which I pray they don't), they have several options in my opinion:
ReplyDelete- Continue to use the DVD format but just use 4+ layers instead of the current 2 (Google it, its possible with the right hardware)
- Make their own format as was already mentioned (Game Cube... Dreamcast anyone?)
- HDDVD. Yes, it's a dead VIDEO format, but they had a large stake in it so why not use it strictly as a proprietary format
- Blu-ray. I doubt it but its a logical choice if they want to continue marketing their systems being "media hubs"
- Solid-state media. Using SD cards or some format like that. That would massively help with the heat and noise as it would remove the need for moving parts. The return of the cartridge???
3N3MY: I think I was more certain that BD would fail. Our little fanboy adventure was fun while it lasted, though. At least you didn't boycott all movie media for the next 1.5 years.
Also, adding to your "why didn't they include it in the first place" debate, you might as well also throw in HDDVD to that. It was very early in its inception, but we all know MS knew what was coming and had they included it in the 360, even in a later model, that format war would have ended completely different.
ReplyDelete(HDDVD mentioned multiple times in the same post... brings a tear to my eye)
I missed this post. Goodness gracious...
ReplyDeleteA great solution to this problem, is doing what Forza 3 did. They included a disc of installation stuff and still had to require one of the discs to play. An open ended game like Mass Effect or Rage could have an install disc (discs if necessary) and then have one of them be the playable one that all the content reads from. The 360 requires the disc to be in to play installed games to curb piracy - this would meet both ends. The only downside would be that users would need a larger hard drive, but this also wouldn't be the first time that a certain size memory device would be needed to play a game (who remembers memory cards?)